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Full Interview
Josh Sharp TRANSCRIPT 8/13/20
Josh Sharp: Oh well, Miss Comic to Watch, herself.
Ziwe: Well, well, Mr. Josh Sharp, cluck, cluck.
Josh Sharp: Here I am watching. Hi, how are you, Ziwe?
Ziwe: I'm doing swell, how are you doing today?
Josh Sharp: I'm doing great. Thank you.
Ziwe: Can we just hop into this interview? By the way, I love your outfit.
Josh Sharp: Thank you, um, it's very cheap jewelry and an ACT UP shirt. I'm sort of doing my activist, you know, drag,
Ziwe: I respond to that. Actually, this reminds me. My first question, you are a white man, Josh, that at one point loved improv. So my question to you is, are you part of the problem?
Josh Sharp: Oh, for sure. I mean there's like no, there's really no excuse for improv. There should be one form of reparations that specifically just for having done improv, I think.
Ziwe: I did improv in Chicago and New York City, and I can confirm that.
Josh Sharp: Yeah, luckily it was sort of a phase, you know.
Ziwe: But you got out of it.
Josh Sharp: I've, yeah, I've grown. Let’s just say I've evolved on this issue.
Ziwe: Now, Josh, would you identify as a white gay?
Josh Sharp: I would identify as a white gay, or I sometimes I prefer queer, but I don't really care.
Ziwe: Okay, cool, and are tall white gay men the negroes of the white gay community?
Josh Sharp: God no. It's so fucking easy to be a white gay man, I feel. I mean even amongst our community, especially if you're like thin and white, it's like game over. A lot of white gays are able to use their gayness as like a weird little badge of oppression in a way that I think they think absolves them of all of their whiteness and maleness. So I would say no, we're in fact the opposite. We're sort of kings of the queer community.
Ziwe: Wow. Would you, how many women of color have you appropriated in the last week?
Josh Sharp: Oh god, you know, I did do Las Culturistas recently, and we sort of all scream at each other like drag queens so I'm sure that was um…I’d hate to play back the tape and count the number of times where I'm like well the blaccent was subtle in that one, you know?
Ziwe: Oh gosh! Josh, how old were you when you discovered racism?
Josh Sharp: Discovered it? I don't know, I guess it's like very um, I can't remember when the memory would have been that I discovered it. I mean we're born with it, right? It's the water, so I can't, I don't have that triggered memory of it. Obviously, I'm a white person. I mean, like, I remember having, I remember having, I remember noticing in elementary school how few black kids there were and maybe that was like, maybe that's when I play back like the first incident of like this doesn't check out cause like, you know, there's more black people in your town than this, like these demographics don't work. I know you're on a second-grade reading level, you're only like just now learning two digit addition, but I think I can understand how sample sets work somehow deep inside. You know?
Ziwe: Oh my god. By the way, I was trying to like dig into your Twitter to see for any, look for any problematic tweets, but I noticed that you don't have a Twitter. Now is this because –
Josh Sharp: That’s true. Now can I confess –
Ziwe: What?
Josh Sharp: -- cause I don't think anyone knows this on record. I don't have a public Twitter. One time, I created a Twitter about seven years ago to try to win tickets to an Erykah Badu concert. I cannot remember the handle, but there is an old Twitter that has about four tweets to win a radio contest.
Ziwe: And did you win the Erykah Badu tickets?
Josh Sharp: No ma'am, I paid and I went.
Ziwe: What's your favorite Erykah Badu concert or song?
Josh Sharp: I think all of Mama’s Gun is like fully a masterpiece.
Ziwe: I love that. I love that you're into Erykah Badu. Can you, can you perform that for me a little?
Josh Sharp: You know what I think is sort of Erykah’s signature move cause, you know, like a lot of the girls have signature moves, and I think Erykah has two. One is (Josh Sharp sings) oh-hoh-oh-hoh. I like that up riff she does. And then I also like (Josh Sharp sings) ooo-ooo. That's one I also like.
Ziwe: Oh my god.
Josh Sharp: Like every, every queen sort of has their like signature…I feel and those, those would be two of hers.
Ziwe: I guess the last time you appropriated a black woman was just now.
Josh Sharp: Yes, ma’am.
Ziwe: Now, Josh, how many black friends do you have?
Josh Sharp: I have, um, I would say nine good black friends –
Ziwe: Nice!
Josh Sharp: -- 21 black acquaintances, I have 12 former black coworkers that I'm friendly with and one black enemy.
Ziwe: Oh my god, that was, did you do like a dataset before the interview?
Josh Sharp: Yeah, I wanted to be prepared.
Ziwe: Now, so, a Twitter, Instagram commenter said that of the 464 photos you have, only 10 of those photos are with black people. How do you defend that record saying you have nine plus black friends?
Josh Sharp: Wow, that's bad. Ten are with black people out of the 400?
Ziwe: This is according to an Instagram user, and I did not follow up.
Josh Sharp: You know, that's the law. I have no defense of that. It surprises me, actually…It surprises me. I guess actually, maybe it's every friend once, and then one got it twice.
Ziwe: I love that. Okay, so how many… so you’re on Grindr, how many black people do you swipe right on, on average?
Josh Sharp: You know what I have noticed actually if we’re being honest. That I have, as we talk about decolonizing our sexual tastes which is always a tricky issue because, you know, there's a line between where fetishism ends and decolonization begins, you know, I have noticed that I do think there is a colorism in my, in my sexual tastes in so far as I've had sex with a lot of non-white people, but not that many truly dark-skinned men.
Ziwe: Oh god.
Josh Sharp: Like I can, I can remember them vividly in a way where I'm like, you have, what is that? So I say I’ve swiped right on, to use Tinder parlance in Grindr, I've swiped right on a lot of black men, but I would, I would fault myself for my own dark skin colorism in my sexual taste.
Ziwe: Wow. You don't get any points for that, but sure. -
Josh Sharp: Don’t want any.
Ziwe: -And we're getting comments. We're getting in the comments, who is your black enemy?
Josh Sharp: Ben Carson.
Ziwe: Ben Carson is your black enemy?
Josh Sharp: He did surgery on my brain, and he left my keys in there.
Ziwe: One time, Ben Carson spoke at my high school, and he gave a long speech about how he was like if he lost his money and his cars and his house, it would be okay. And it like reached this fever pitch where it was about to be like, because I have my family or something like that, but he just said because I can buy it all again, which was really strange. Now, you submitted a question to my stories, you asked, who is Taylor Nolan? So my question for you is, do you make it your business to not know who black women are?
Josh Sharp: See I'm, no, no, I actually just didn't. I honestly make it my business to not be well versed in the Bachelor in Paradise universe. I'm actually, I have to confess I'm learning that they’re a black person right now.
Ziwe: Wow.
Josh Sharp: But I'm really excited to learn more about them very soon.
Ziwe: Now, here's a question for you, since you're wanting to learn more about the person, what should black people know about you, Josh Sharp?
Josh Sharp: What should black people know about me? I don't know. I mean, seems like a waste of your time to be concerned with me, frankly, but if you really want to know, you know, [indiscernible] what you should know is lately I've been biking a lot.
Ziwe: And that's specific to black people?
Josh Sharp: No, that's for everybody, but I just sort of figure, you know, if I'm gonna to introduce myself you're like, what's up, I'd be like I've been biking a lot. I'm really happy with how my ass looks.
Ziwe: Oh, your ass. Is that because of the sexualization of black people? Hmm, interesting.
Josh Sharp: No, I guess that’s more, that's more of a probably awful gay man thing to just lead with that.
Ziwe: Ah. Okay now, Josh, what do you qualitatively like about black people?
Josh Sharp: Um, I don't qualitatively like, I qualitatively LOVE! Um, let's see, I would say, you know, the like PC answer would be diversity, because, you know, blackness is not a monolith, and then the like vague but spot on answer would be like, I love about black people, their blackness. But I think actually the like true answer that is bound to dabble in some degree of stereotypical-ality is that, it's cultural contributions. So that's my full answer. Can't wait to read that back in the transcript. [JG- Shout out!]
Ziwe: Yeah, the transcript is gonna be tough on this one, but you know what, hey. Now, name five of your, name five black queer heroes of yours.
Josh Sharp: Okay. Jimmy Baldwin, Angela Davis. Let's go with Cakes Da Killa. Let's go with Leaf. And let's also go with Janet Mock.
Ziwe: Okay. Hey, shout out to Janet Mock. Janet Mock, they are a friend of the show so shout out –
Josh Sharp: Oh, bless.
Ziwe: Yeah. Okay, now, here's a question for you. Oh, you like black authors. You love Octavia Butler, let's talk about her.
Josh Sharp: I like Octavia Butler. I haven't read, I haven't read a ton of Octavia Butler, but I like black authors.
Ziwe: Who are your favorite black authors?
Josh Sharp: I would say, we talking fiction? Nonfiction? We talking all of it?
Ziwe: Whatever you, whatever you, whatever floats your boat.
Josh Sharp: Let's go one and then the other. Fiction, I would say, yeah, Octavia is probably up there, Toni has to be up there, Paul Beatty, I love The Sellout. Um, James Baldwin.
Ziwe: Jimmy Baldwin.
Josh Sharp: And also nonfiction, James Baldwin, and then I would say Angela Davis is number one. Ta-Nehisi Coates. Keeanga-Yamahtta Taylor. And Michelle Alexander.
Ziwe: Okay, you’ve, so you are, you are, you read a lot.
Josh Sharp: I do like to read.
Ziwe: I would argue –
Josh Sharp: It’s sort of my kink.
Ziwe: -- you’re my first, you're my first guest that loves to read, so shout out to you.
Josh Sharp: I know! I heard all these girls don't like to read. And I think reading…but here's the other thing, let me just call out the commun-ti-tea. Okay, you might not like to read, but also a lot of this can be done via movies or YouTube. You know what I mean?
Ziwe: Yeah, but you wouldn’t –
Josh Sharp: You can watch Malcolm X debate James Baldwin on YouTube. You know what I mean? Like there's, like this stuff exists.
Ziwe: So you're, so you're referring people to listen to James Baldwin on YouTube as opposed to buying his books?
Josh Sharp: No, I would much rather you read it. I just, I'm talking to all these girls who are like I don't like to read and so thus I have never heard who Stokely Carmichael is and like, well there's other ways to learn a thing, you know?
Ziwe: So Josh, okay, have you ever called the police on a black person before?
Josh Sharp: Never called the police period.
Ziwe: Okay that, people like to flex on that on my show, and it's an interesting flex. If you had to call the police because I say stabbed you in the alley, what –
Josh Sharp: Okay.
Ziwe: -- what would you. I’m the dispatcher. [Miming a phone] Hello, 9-1-1.
Josh Sharp: And I’m hearing this? I would, [miming picking up a phone] I’d be like: (Gasp) Oh my god. Hello. Who is this?
Ziwe: Hello.
Josh Sharp: Hello! Who is this?
Ziwe: 9-1-1. What's your emergency?
Josh Sharp: I blacked out. I just came to. Someone called 9-1-1 on my phone and put it in my hand. What’s going on?
Ziwe: That’s not funny. This is a serious line for people who need help.
Josh Sharp: I completely agree. I'll be gone now. [Miming hanging up the phone]. CLACK.
Ziwe: And then you would die in the street, Josh.
Josh Sharp: Happily.
Ziwe: For black liberation, would you die?
Josh Sharp: Sure. I mean, aren’t black people already dying for it.
Ziwe: Wow, you are on wh-one. Now Josh, here's a question for you. What are your thoughts on reparations, and will you pay my dark-skinned viewers?
Josh Sharp: Uh, yes, that’s good! That’s. My thoughts are pro. I'm on the record as pro, but what's fucked up is I've been paid to talk about reparations on the Home Box Office before we've actually given reparations.
Ziwe: You’ve been paid to talk about reparations?
Josh Sharp: Oh yeah, Two Dope Queens, check it out. It's mostly what I talk about. But then, what I think about reparations, now, this is not gonna be a fun comedy answer, is that like, I think, obviously I'm pro, but we have to understand reparations in the equal…first of all, I think it needs to be systemic, right. Like I think that, here's something to forward into your like, you know, Trump-voting cousins, is that New York Magazine piece from like a month ago, “What is Owed.” Did you read that?
Ziwe: Yeah.
Josh Sharp: I thought it was a very good primer for people to be like, here's why and here's how, right?
Ziwe: Yes.
Josh Sharp: You know what I mean? And so, I think that is the case for why we should do systemic reparations, but only with the understanding that it's a part of an ecosystem cause I can see a dream world in which we get reparations, and then people are like, so we're done? And it's like, no, we still end the incarceral state, and we still reform hiring practices, and we still reform racist housing practices, and we still do all of this, but that this is the solution to the lack of intergenerational wealth that must happen. And I love all the mutual aid stuff that's going on now because there's something politically anarchic about it, frankly, but ultimately that's sort of a neoliberal idea, right? To like, that that the way we're going to fix this is all passing around Venmos to one another. I definitely think we should do that. It’s community-building. But we can’t, that is not enough for reparations to be done.
Ziwe: That, those are such strong opinions, and I appreciate that. Did you say all of that when you were paid to talk about reparations a couple years ago?
Josh Sharp: No, I mostly made jokes about it, but um, you'll see. That's like sort of like it without the jokes. Actually, no, that's not the bit at all, but anyway.
Ziwe: No, hey, I appreciate, I appreciate breaking down why we need reparations –
Josh Sharp: Oh, and I will Venmo all the dark-skinned people. Do you really want me to do that?
Ziwe: Yeah, please!
Josh Sharp: This is what we'll do, next week's unemployment check, I will split amongst anyone who wants to put their Venmo, and here is my request, can I make a request?
Ziwe: Sure.
Josh Sharp: I would like a really like a little white goody two shoe who wants to do the work, will someone go, because I don't want to watch myself back frankly, so will some white, because a white should do this emotional labor, will you go through and chart everybody's Venmo tags, and then send it to me? And then I will take next week's unemployment and divide it amongst them.
Ziwe: Wow.
Josh Sharp: Scroll back and find them all.
Ziwe: Oh my god, this is powerful I'll have. I'll –
Josh Sharp: Wait, do we have a white who would do this?
Ziwe: Who's, anyone volunteering in the comments to do this for Josh Sharp?
Josh Sharp: Can a white in the comments please be my secretary?
Ziwe: Are there any secretaries in the chat? Hello!
Josh Sharp: I need a good little self-flagellating white to agree to scroll back and take every single Venmo and write it down.
Ziwe: Anyone! Any takers? Ooh, someone said I got it, I'm a nice white, I got you.
Josh Sharp: Okay, good, that person, please do it and slide in my DM’s and send them all to me, and then I will split next week's unemployment which, you know, unemployment don't look great right now, it’s gonna be –
Ziwe: I mean, It is a travesty what the working class –
Josh Sharp: You might not be impressed by how much you're getting Venmoed but, you know.
Ziwe: Tough stuff. Now, here's the question.
Josh Sharp: You froze!
Ziwe: I have two more questions.
Josh Sharp: Wait, wait, wait, you froze. What did you say?
Ziwe: Two more questions before we end this fantastic interview. Now, I'm gonna list some black civil rights figures, you're gonna tell me who they are, are you ready?
Josh Sharp: Can you say that again? Oh, it’s the civil rights round.
Ziwe: Are you prepared, Josh?
Josh Sharp: I just have to say, I know a lot, a lot of people have used notes before, right?
Ziwe: Yes. Yes, Grace Kuhlenschmidt used notes.
Josh Sharp: I would love to, do you want to see that there's no notes here? How do I prove that?
Ziwe: You can turn –
Josh Sharp: There’s a white screen so I'm backlit. Look all I have is this very ordinary New Yorker. And –
Josh Sharp holps up an issue of The New Yorker and White Fragility.
Ziwe: And you have a lot of art in your in your apartment. Are those by black artists?
Josh Sharp: [pointing to White Fragility] That was gonna be my cheat sheet.
Ziwe: Okay –
Josh Sharp: Are any of these by black artists? Most, most of them were bought at thrift shops so I'm not aware of who the artist is.
Ziwe: Wow, okay good to know that you don't support black art. Now questions. I'm going to list people, tell me who, who they are. Now Martin Luther King.
Josh Sharp: Okay, Martin Luther King, you know, white people's favorite. We can go through the hits: March on Washington, Birmingham, you know, Selma, all of that, but here's the thing, I think we should be talking about, and this is again to the whites in the comments mostly, we forget that Martin was more radical than a lot of people want to remember. The man was calling for a UBI, he was against the Vietnam War, you know, we like to remember that he was all about peaceful protests, but he had to have armed guards around him to do it, like that's like, the dude was radical.
Ziwe: Wow. Okay, Ida B. Wells.
Josh Sharp: Ida B. Wells. Made the NAACP, right? With W.E.B. Du Bois and, and some other folks.
Ziwe: I don't know that to be Ida B. Wells. I know her for making the database of lynchings, so she really founded –
Josh Sharp: Yeah.
Ziwe: But did she make the NAACP?
Josh Sharp: I think she founded the NAACP with W.E.B. Du Bois –
Ziwe: -- If I’ve been wrong this whole time. Let’s –
Josh Sharp: That’s the thing I remember about her. I don’t know, if that’s, if I’m wrong.
Ziwe: Oh, she, guess what folks, she did. Oh! Oh! Okay, someone is learning! What college did you go to Josh?
Josh Sharp: The University of North Carolina in Chapel Hill.
Ziwe: Okay, shout out to Chapel Hill. Assata Shakur.
Josh Sharp: Assata Shakur?
Ziwe: Yeah.
Josh Sharp: I don't know who Assata Shakur is.
Ziwe: Okay, so don't flex. Okay, --
Josh Sharp: Yeah, no.
Ziwe: -- Thurgood Marshall.
Josh Sharp: Say it again?
Ziwe: Thurgood Marshall.
Josh Sharp: Oh, um, Justice of the Supreme Court and argued Brown vs. Board.
Ziwe: First black men ever. Shirley Chisholm.
Josh Sharp: Shirley Chisholm, ran for President, first female black Senator, gorgeous updo.
Ziwe: Sojourner Truth.
Josh Sharp: Sojourner Truth. Oh, um, was the part of uh, former slave, helped um, you know not only a, an abolitionist, but also like a women's rights activist.
Ziwe: Jack Johnson.
Josh Sharp: Jack Johnson sang “Bubble Toes” and um “Flake.”
Ziwe: No, he was the first black heavyweight.
Josh Sharp: Yeah.
Ziwe: Fannie Lou Hamer.
Josh Sharp: Who?
Ziwe: Fannie Lou Hamer.
Josh Sharp: Fannie Lou Hamer…wait, I know that one… or do I? … hmm… nope, I forgot.
Ziwe: Well, you know what, Josh, you may be learned, but you still have a few things to learn. Like me –
Josh Sharp: Definitely.
Ziwe: I didn’t know that Ida B. Wells founded the NAACP, but I learn every day. Now, last question for you. Why did you agree to be on this fantastic show?
Josh Sharp: To defend my race! No, I’m kidding. I um, I like what you do. I mean, we’re not, I like what you do, and I liked it before now. Well first of all, it seemed like fun, but then I just like sort of wanted to kiss the ring, cause I'm like glad you're having a moment, you know.
Ziwe: Oh, thank you.
Josh Sharp: Yeah, and we don't know each other that well, but we've known each other from shows and stuff, and I want to tell you, Ziwe, if I may say something nice. I've respected the way you, do you mind? Is this too…
Ziwe: No, I love compliments.
Josh Sharp: Well I just respect the way you manage to like be charming while also challenging in a way that feels like is so fun while also being very anarchic, and I'm talking about not just this show, I'm talking about your body of work that I think it's like –
Ziwe: Thank you.
Josh Sharp: -- funny and punk, it's great.
Ziwe: Thank you! I’m going for funny and punk, and I actually think you're a fantastic comedian, and I think everybody should go follow Josh Sharp, and be sure to drop your Venmos so that he can disperse his weekly—
Josh Sharp: You’re gonna get some UI.
Ziwe: Yeah.
Josh Sharp: Who knows. $12, maybe, by the time we split it up.
Ziwe: Honestly, God bless. Everyone please give it up for Josh Sharp!