ZIWE INTERVIEWS George Civeris TRANSCRIPT 7/27/20
Ziwe: Happy birthday!
George Civeris: Thank you very much!
Ziwe: How are you feeling? Thank you so much for coming on my show today.
George Civeris: Wait, you’re a little bit…I'm getting a little Cher auto-tune from you.
Ziwe: You’re getting auto-tune?
George Civeris: Does anyone else hear it? If, if not then it's me.
Ziwe: Can you guys hear me well. Please sound off in the comments. (singing) La la la!
Ziwe laughs.
Ziwe: You were just complimenting my outfit.
George Civeris: Okay, I mean we can try. You truly sound like Cher singing “Believe,” but we can try.
Ziwe: Oh no. Well, thank you for doing the show. Can we just like hop into some questions? I have, I've been researching you all week.
George Civeris: Great!
Ziwe: Well, so firstly, famously you are a Cancer sun, and your birthday was two days ago. How old did you turn?
George Civeris: I turned 29.
Ziwe: Oh my God! Congratulations!
George Civeris: Thank you.
Ziwe: Wow. So what do you have to say to the black people who will never make it to that age because of racist institutions?
George Civeris: What do I have to say to them?
Ziwe nods.
George Civeris: I'm sorry for any complicity that I contributed to those institutions.
Ziwe: George, they're dead. That's disgusting. Now, would you describe yourself as light-skinned?
George Civeris: Uh, no, I would describe myself as a white.
Ziwe: Okay. What do you say to people who assume that you are black or half black because of your dark skin tone?
George Civeris: What do I… I, um, I correct them, kindly.
Ziwe: How?
George Civeris: For instance, once I was almost booked on a lineup that was supposed to be all Latinx comedians, and, and so they and, and they asked me if I was and I said, I'm sorry, I'm not, but like I'm happy to recommend people who are, and they didn't need me to recommend anyone so it all worked out.
Ziwe: Okay, George. Now how many black and Latinx friends do you have? Can you list them?
George Civeris: I, I have many. I don't…I'm not going to count or list them. I'm sorry.
Ziwe: But how can I be sure that you have these friends in your life?
George Civeris: Well, we can talk about what, I mean, two people separately texted me to tell me to shout them out when you asked me this so I can do that, but I'm not going to shout anyone out without their consent.
Ziwe: Okay. So, who are you going to shout out?
George Civeris: It’s, it was my friend Melana and my friend Lauren.
Ziwe: Okay, they're black women?
George Civeris: They are. Yeah.
Ziwe: What do you like about these black women in particular?
George Civeris: Well, they're both very different. Lauren was my roommate in San Francisco when I lived there, and we went to college together, and I like that she's incredibly funny and incredibly intelligent….very just like a wonderful person and a good friend, and she was a really good roommate when we lived together. And then my friend Melana is very again, very smart and funny. She works in fashion. She's very fashionable. Actually, no, sorry. She works in makeup, and she's very good –
Ziwe: Keep your story straight, George. It sounds like these black women are made up. Now –
George Civeris: She works, I, I, last time I checked she worked at Pat McGrath.
Ziwe: Okay. Well, I'll have to follow up with my fact-checkers. So you grew up in a multilingual household and half of the time you lived in Greece and half of the time you lived in America.
George Civeris: Yes.
Ziwe: So how old were you when you met your first black person?
George Civeris: I was in second grade.
Ziwe: And what…tell me about that, that traumatic experience for you.
George Civeris: Well, we moved…I spent most of my early childhood in Greece. Then we moved to the United States in second grade. So I didn't know any black people in Greece, and then I… we lived in New Jersey. I couldn't tell you like exactly, I don't remember who the person was. I just, I'm assuming since I was then in a diverse community that that is when I met not only my, the first black person I've ever met, but like I'm sure other people of color as well because Greece is pretty homogeneous.
Ziwe: This is your response to me asking if it was traumatic. Wow. Now –
George Civeris: Is that what you asked? I didn't hear you exactly what no, no, no, it was not traumatic at all –
Ziwe: It rolled off the tongue!
George Civeris: No, it was not traumatic.
Ziwe: George, how could you, how would you describe white people in three words?
George Civeris: What kind of people?
Ziwe: White people.
George Civeris: White people?
Ziwe: Sure.
George Civeris: White people in three words. Um, oh, uhh, mmm “the bad race.”
Ziwe: You're not going to get any points for self-loathing. Speaking of, you have a friend who messaged me, DM’ed me. Her name is Mariah. Childhood friend. She said that your real name is not Civeris, but rather…I don't know how to pronounce it.
George Civeris: Wait. I'm sorry. What is her name? What is her name?
Ziwe: Mariah.
George Civeris: Mariah?
Ziwe: Yes, her name is Mariah, and she said that your, your real last name starts with a T-S.
George Civeris: Yeah, yeah, I, well I changed my name for comedy because my real last name is very difficult to pronounce.
Ziwe: And so her question for you is will you change your name back to your real last name in solidarity with Greece?
George Civeris: In solidarity with Greece as a country?
Ziwe: Sure.
George Civeris: Well, I don't have to be in solidarity, I am Greek. And I…in fact –
Ziwe: Don’t get mad at me.
George Civeris: In fact, I changed, I didn't want to like Americanize my name so I changed it so that, in fact, the C is more authentic than the T-S because the T-S was because of like a linguistic change that happened. But in fact, it would have been with a C, you know, in the olden times. Next question.
Ziwe: [Laughs] Wow! Okay. Let's just, let's go through some of your tweets. So you tweeted, famously, you tweeted “Black Panther radicalized me in being an advocate for women in STEM.” And this got 11 likes and one retweet.
George Civeris: Yeah, it was, it was before I was before I got more followers.
Ziwe: Okay, how do you defend a tweet like that?
George Civeris: Well, so the tweet was “Black Panther radicalized me to support women in STEM”?
Ziwe: Yes.
George Civeris: Okay. Well, I guess the joke would be that it's a bait and switch because you expect me to talk about racial justice because I'm talking about radicalization, but instead because there are so many brilliant women in STEM in that film, It actually radicalized me to be, to support women in STEM. So it's kind of like a little, just a little, little silly innocent joke.
Ziwe: Oh, silly innocent joke about black women in science fields. Hilarious. Now, George, I have a tweet to pull up for you, and this is a tweet….okay, it said, oh wait…
Ziwe flips her camera to face her computer. Twitter is open.
Ziwe: Let's refresh. It says quote…wait, why isn’t this loading? Oh, I guess it's not valuable.
Ziwe flips the camera to face her.
Ziwe: But the Tweet says “Today's look: gay curator of the exhibition on African art featuring only white artists.”
George Civeris: Yeah. Yeah.
Ziwe: And you can see the outfit that you're wearing… is this.
Ziwe flips the camera to her computer showing George’s Instagram. In the photo, he is wearing glasses, a mustard turtleneck, and a pea coat.
George Civeris: Yeah. Right. So the whole…
Ziwe: You guys can notice that it has 26 likes.
Ziwe zooms in on the likes on the photo.
George Civeris: Right. So like I'm, you know, I'm wearing kind of a, a mustard colored turtleneck and like a pea coat and so I set, so I look kind of like a, like a, like a problematic Professor or something. So then I made the joke that I look like, what is it that I look like a white professor of, of African American studies or something?
Ziwe: Yes, and what's funny about that, George?
George Civeris: Well, what's funny about it is that, it is that, it's in, it's like incongruous because in fact, it's problematic when white academics fetishize, you know, art made by people of color.
Ziwe: Interesting.
George Civeris: I managed to be both self-deprecating and, and do social commentary kind of in that one tweet.
Ziwe: You know, honestly, it was a timely, timely piece of satire –
George Civeris: Thank you.
Ziwe: -- with 26 likes. Now, you like Lil Wayne. I listened to this on Ayo’s Iconography podcast with Olivia that you said that you were a huge fan of Lil Wayne. So what, what's a Lil Wayne bar that you enjoy?
George Civeris: I really like the, his, his verse in the Solange song….um…which now, I'm not remembering the title of.
Ziwe: Oh, you don't remember.
George Civeris: No, I do. Wait, hold on. Um…it's like one word.
Ziwe: Oh.
George Civeris: Well, anyway, it's like about his experience with mental health and his experience in jail and stuff.
Ziwe: Okay, so you like…okay.
George Civeris: Hard! Hard! It's called Hard?
Ziwe: No, it's called Mad.
George Civeris: Mad!
Ziwe: Ugh…reaching there. Also on Straight Lab podcast, you did an impression of Kiely Williams accent in 3LW’s song...
George Civeris: In my podcast I did that?
Ziwe: Yeah, can you give us…you said something like “promises, promises” –
George Civeris: Mmm.
Ziwe: -- but you said it with a lisp. Could you just do that for the class, please?
George Civeris: I'm not going to do that.
Ziwe: Oh, okay, so it was okay to do on your podcast in front of Sam Taggart, but it's not okay to do in front of a black woman?
George Civeris: Well, I'm pretty sure that our guest that episode was a black woman.
Ziwe: Oh, okay.
George Civeris: So I don't really know if that checks out.
Ziwe: …Okay. Now let's talk through some civil rights leaders, and you just tell me what, you just the first thing that comes to mind when I say their names. Now, Martin Luther King.
George Civeris: Like…the…like a very famous Civil Rights activist…
Ziwe: Oh.
George Civeris: …who was involved in the March on Washington.
Ziwe: Oh, okay.
George Civeris: Yeah.
Ziwe: Malcolm X.
George Civeris: Like a more radical civil rights leader. Was a black nationalist, disagreed with, with King on a lot of stuff, did not support the March on Washington. Uhh…yeah.
Ziwe: Marcus Garvey.
George Civeris: Marcus Garvey is, again, a black nationalist. I believe he, I believe he was a, he was a black separatist, you know, again a radical during the…
Ziwe: Okay. Philip Asa Randolph.
George Civeris: Who?
Ziwe: Philip Asa Randolph.
George Civeris: Ummmm…I believe he was he was involved in the Black Panthers?
Ziwe: No.
George Civeris: Okay.
Ziwe: Huey P. Newton.
George Civeris: Wait, I'm sorry. I know Philip. I think he was also involved in the March on Washington. Is that correct?
Ziwe: He was involved in the March on Washington, but there were thousands of people involved in the March on Washington.
George Civeris: I know. Okay, but he was, but he was during…sorry, I, he was during King’s time not during the…yes, sorry.
Ziwe: Yes. Fun fact, so actually, Philip Asa Randolph was going to do an original March on Washington, but then Roosevelt, I think, signed Executive 8802 so they didn’t do the March. So then when Martin Luther King came back 30 years later, they were like “I will do a March,” famously. Now, Huey P. Newton.
George Civeris: Uh, uh Black Panther.
Ziwe: Okay. Stokely Carmichael.
George Civeris: Also, Black Panther. Um…yeah, like was very controversial, was surveilled by the FBI.
Ziwe: Fred Hampton.
George Civeris: Um, uh, also, also a Black Panther, right?
Ziwe: Yes. Well, I don't know! Stokely Carmichael coined the term Black Power. That's really what his claim to fame was, and he had a book about that. Do you know who Kwame Ture was?
George Civeris: Who?
Ziwe: Kwame Ture.
George Civeris: No.
Ziwe: Okay. So Stokely Carmichael / Kwame Ture are the same person. Now, what about Shirley Chisholm?
George Civeris: She was a congresswoman. She was the first black woman to run for President, and she was played by Uzo Aduba on Mrs. America.
Ziwe: Okay, get, go off with the FX reference. We love cable. Now, Angela Davis.
George Civeris: Angela Davis. Writer and activist, prison abolitionist. She writes a lot about the prison industrial complex. Lesbian feminist. I think she currently, oh actually no, I know for a fact that she currently teaches at UC Santa Cruz because my friend is there, and I think she teaches in the History of Consciousness Department.
Ziwe: Okay, Louis Farrakhan.
George Civeris: Very controversial figure in the Nation of Islam and, and, and has, and also I read a couple of days ago that Leah Remini said he has ties to Scientology.
Ziwe: Really?
George Civeris: Yeah, but I don't know. I didn't fact check it, but he's controversial because he's like he, you know, a lot of people have distanced themselves from him because he's made anti-Semitic comments.
Ziwe: Okay, you did your research today, and the Stanford education is showing. Now are Greeks the negroes of the white, of white people?
George Civeris: No.
Ziwe: Okay. How do you say black in Greek?
George Civeris: Black like…“μαύρος” (mávros).
Ziwe: Sounds like a slur. Now, what do you qualitatively like about the black community?
George Civeris: I don't…there's enough diversity within the black community that I can’t, that there's, there aren't like, I don't want to project any commonalities on to them that that are not consistent.
Ziwe: Okay, cool so nothing. Can you name five black people off the top of your head?
George Civeris: Yes. Taraji P. Henson, Issa Rae, Beyonce, Jay-Z, and Blue Ivy.
Ziwe: Okay. Okay. Okay. Hey, God bless, that was, you didn't struggle at all. Now, have you ever called the police on a black person before?
George Civeris: No.
Ziwe: If you had to call the police, if I was, if I stabbed you and then robbed you, like what would you do?
George Civeris: Ummm.
Ziwe: 9-1-1, what's your emergency?
George Civeris: No, well if I was actively being stabbed. I would probably just start like screaming.
Ziwe: But then you have your phone in your hands. 9-1-1. What's your emergency?
George Civeris: No, no, I’d start screaming, and I would say “can anyone with good politics come save me.”
Ziwe: I don't believe that, but you know what I support, I support, I support that.
George Civeris: Thank you.
Ziwe: Now, you're…okay, are you versed in art? Because our next guest is an art junkie, an art expert, really.
George Civeris: Oh my God. I thought you asked me if I'm vers.
Ziwe: No, I wouldn't ask that.
George Civeris: Okay. Well, anyway…
Ziwe: Are you?
George Civeris: … am I well versed in like Fine Art, like, like visual art?
Ziwe: Any art.
George Civeris: I mean, I would say I'm, I'm relatively well versed…I would say, I'm not as well versed in like visual art or like fine art as I am in like I don't know film or literature or whatever.
Ziwe: Oh, so literature. So who are your favorite –
George Civeris: No, no, wait, let's go with art.
Ziwe: No, who your favorite black authors, George?
George Civeris: My favorite black authors. Let's see. I just reread Home Going by Yaa Gyasi…
Ziwe: Okay.
George Civeris: …who's a friend of mine. And I just was like –
Ziwe: Flex.
George Civeris: Sorry?
Ziwe: Flex.
George Civeris: Yeah, well. I just ordered this is not original because it was like the number one book in the country, but I just ordered The Vanishing Half by Brit Bennett because I've heard good things about it. Um…
Ziwe: But you haven't read it?
George Civeris: No.
Ziwe: Okay, interesting.
George Civeris: Yeah.
Ziwe: Back to black art for a second. I'm gonna –
George Civeris: Yes.
Ziwe: -- name artists, and you tell me if, what, just make up, you’re an improviser. You're very good at comedy. You have a very hilarious comedy set on Comedy Central, everybody should go watch, but you're really good at like making things up and being funny so I'm going to say an artist name, and you're just going to make up or name a real title of their work, okay?
George Civeris: Uh-huh.
Ziwe: Jean-Michel Basquiat.
George Civeris: I mean, I, I know who he is. I don't know the titles of…in fact, I'm…okay
Ziwe: Make one up.
George Civeris: Untitled.
Ziwe: Untitled. That's actually accurate. Now, what about Archibald Motley.
George Civeris: Who?
Ziwe: Archibald Motley. He is a famous Harlem Renaissance painter.
George Civeris: Untitled.
Ziwe: Ok. Ok, Kehinde Wiley.
George Civeris: Untitled.
Ziwe: Okay, Kara Walker.
George Civeris: Oh, um the big sugar baby
Ziwe: Awesome,
George Civeris: And, or, and also her like the cutouts she does that are like, that are like figures that, that present a narrative, but the sugar baby, but it's not called a sugar baby so I'm sorry, but it was in the Domino Sugar Factory, and it was a giant like sphinxlike baby and then in fact, you might not know this, but a part of it was then displayed in Hydra, which is a Greek island, and I went and saw it there, and I actually saw it in Greece.
Ziwe: Okay, flex!! Augusta… Obviously, I wouldn't know that. Augusta Savage.
George Civeris: I am, I unfortunately, I'm…see I'm not well-versed in art. I'm sorry. Untitled.
Ziwe: Faith Ringgold.
George Civeris: Sorry?
Ziwe: Faith Ringgold.
George Civeris: I thought you said Molly Ringwald. I don't know. Untitled.
Ziwe: Okay, great. You know what, George, you are so funny and fantastic and you, you know while you might not be well-versed in art you are well-versed in comedy.
George Civeris: Thank you.
Ziwe: Now, here's one - two questions for you. Are you going to pay reparations?
George Civeris: I…sure.
Ziwe: Will you commit to paying reparations?
George Civeris: I mean, emphatically yes. I would like if that were on the table, I mean it's not gonna happen in this administration, but I would vote for reparations, and I would you know, participate in it. I'm also, I'm sorry, go ahead.
Ziwe: No, please.
George Civeris: I was just going to say, I'm happy to if there's like a, if ever, if you want to choose like a place for me to donate I'm happy to do that. But I also want to say that like reparations should be a collective thing that is, that is money that is given by the government and not, and it shouldn't like it's I feel like it's very libertarian kind of like ideologically to, for it to fall on people that are doing it willingly because then the people with the most power and the wealthiest people are not going to be forced to do it. So I'm, yes, I'm happy to pay things individually, but I also think it should be a collective responsibility.
Ziwe: You know, that is, that is a really easy cop-out for what I was about to ask you which was to pay reparations to all of my viewers. Now last question, why did you come on the show?
George Civeris: I just, I mean, well, I just really respect you, and I really love you, and I think you're so smart.
Ziwe: Thank you.
George Civeris: And I mean, I don't know, I, you know, we've known each other, we've been like friendly for a while…
Ziwe: But you didn't list me as your friend.
George Civeris: Sorry?
Ziwe: You didn't list me as your friend earlier.
George Civeris: Well, because I only listed people who asked me to list them. I'm not going to just talk about you without asking you if that's okay with you.
Ziwe: Okay, I'll keep that for the record next time I hear you talking shit. Now everybody, please give it up for George in the comments. It's his birthday, go follow him. He is so funny. Watch his set on Comedy Central. Bye, George. Thank you so much.
George Civeris: Bye, Ziwe!