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Ziwe interviews alyssa milano

TRANSCRIPT 7/16/20

Ziwe: Thank you, producers. Hello!

Alyssa Milano: Hi!

Ziwe: We did it. 

Alyssa Milano: This is the first time I've ever gone live.

Ziwe: Oh my gosh, what an honor to be to go live with you. A brilliant comedic actress with amazing comedic timing. How are you doing? 

Alyssa Milano: I'm okay. How are you doing?

Ziwe: I'm doing swell -- 

Alyssa Milano: -- you know the world is a little crazy right now, but I'm trying to do the best I can. I've got two kids that are eight and five. My son is eight, my daughter’s five. I have been… um, it's been, it's been a, it's been a struggle. It's hard. I miss my parents.

Ziwe: Yeah.

Alyssa Milano: You know, how are you doing? 

Ziwe: I'm doing…I'm not well. 

Alyssa Milano: Yeah. 

Ziwe: But I'm alive, and I have a roof over my head so I can't complain. 

Alyssa Milano: It's, isn't it like a rollercoaster? Some days I'm totally fine, and I'm able to like really appreciate that I'm with my family, and I have this time with my kids, and then like two days ago, I was a complete maniac. I was so…I had such, um, rage like total rage that everything that my kids did upset me, everything that my husband said upset me. I was crying in my bed, you know, and I couldn't figure…I spoke to my therapist, and I couldn't figure out I was like what like what's different about today?

Ziwe: Totally. 

Alyssa Milano: And I don't think that there was anything really specifically different except that, you know, that whole thing with the CDC happened where he was, where he's now trying to get information directly from hospitals instead of going through the CDC, and I was like, what are we doing? And then I started getting pissed at the Democrats because I was like, where are they right now? So I don't know so I had a little meltdown two days ago, and I woke up fine yesterday. Also, I mean, I'm drinking more than normal. I'm eating a lot of carbs. 

Ziwe: Yeah. You know --

Alyssa Milano: -- gummies. 

Ziwe: Yeah, it's honestly a hard time, and I, but what I actually find to give me reprieve is having good friends in my life so just to start off this interview, how many black friends do you have?

Alyssa Milano: I knew you were going to ask that question. And as I was sitting trying to think about it, I realized that I am able to quantify my white friends more than black friends because I don't have a lot of white friends. Most of my friends are people of color. They're not all black. But like my bestie in the whole world that I've been best friends with for 25 years is Palestinian. And my longest friendship in my life is this amazing man named Jamey Jazz, who was my producer when I was a kid. I had albums that I released, and he was my producer and it was 19… like 88 which makes me super old, but I remember very distinctly having this conversation with him about…I was on Who’s the Boss already, and I had a Mercedes that I had bought myself and one day, we were in the recording studio. And this is before Rodney King. I mean this is, this is the 80s, and I said to him I said, let's go to lunch. Do you want to drive? You know, just thinking like I don't want to drive. And he was like, no I can't drive your car. And I said, what do you mean you can't drive my car. And he goes, well honey, I'm black. I can't drive a Mercedes. And that was literally my first experience with the police treating black people in a way that was not equal, and I thought about it the other day, you know, when, well not be other day now, all the days are bleeding into one, but when the protests started happening I called him and I said, you know, this is this has been going…I want to remind you of this moment when you told me that you couldn't drive my Mercedes because if a black guy was driving my Mercedes, a cop would pull us over and probably be arrested for, you know, nothing. So, um, the…what I can tell you is that outside of my husband who is white, my parents who are white, my kids who are white, and my therapist is white…

Ziwe: Your therapist is white.

Alyssa Milano: Yeah, so, so those are, those are, those are the people in my life that are white, and the rest are different ethnicities, and I think, I think I have a real distinct reason for that. So in in 2000, so 20 years ago. I lived in South Africa for three months, and I volunteered in a township and a children's hospital, and it was nine years after apartheid was abolished. So it was…the country was really changing and shifting, and I could not believe the dichotomy of how the country was so incredibly beautiful when you looked up at the mountains and then so totally tragic when you were at eye level, and I got really caught up in the philanthropic humanitarian…what was going on there? Because it was in such flux, and when I got home from South Africa, I started…I started really…I started really being angry at my white friends because I felt like they didn't understand how, how black people live and the oppression throughout history. So for the last 20 years, I've kind of focused my life a little bit more on making friends with people of color because, quite frankly, they've been the most honest. 

Ziwe: Black people are honest. I would agree with that expression. Let's go through a couple black civil rights leaders because you mentioned apartheid, and I’m glad to hear that, you know, you are against that. Now, do you know who Martin Luther King is? 

Alyssa Milano: Martin Luther King Jr.?

Ziwe: Sure. 

Alyssa Milano: Yes, of course. 

Ziwe: Who is he? Just one sentence. Who is he?

Alyssa Milano: Civil rights leader.

Ziwe: Great. And what about Malcolm X?

Alyssa Milano: Malcolm X…also a civil rights leader but happened later on. I just actually wound up watching on Netflix Who Killed Malcolm X which I highly recommend because I didn't realize that that case is still open. Well, they're considering reopening that case.

Ziwe: Marcus Garvey?

Alyssa Milano: I don't know who that is.

Ziwe: Philip Asa Randolph?

Alyssa Milano: I don't know who that is.

Ziwe: Huey Newton?

Alyssa Milano: I don't know who that is. 

Ziwe: Stokely Carmichael?

Alyssa Milano: I don't know who that is. 

Ziwe: Fred Hampton?

Alyssa Milano: I don't know who that is. 

Ziwe: Okay. Angela Davis?

Alyssa Milano: I know who Angela Davis is. 

Ziwe: All right, one sentence on Angela.

Alyssa Milano: She was an abolitionist. 

Ziwe: Rosa Parks?

Alyssa Milano: Yes, she was actually not the first woman…black woman who put up a fight about sitting in the back of the bus, but she was the one that, that was famous for that, that moment in time and changed history.

Ziwe: Totally. What about Tarana Burke? 

Alyssa Milano: She's my mentor.

Ziwe: Let's elaborate on that. 

Alyssa Milano: So I met Tarana when…when…okay, so Harvey Weinstein. 

Alyssa Milano blows her nose on a tissue.

Alyssa Milano: Sorry, my nose is running. So when all the Harvey Weinstein chaos was happening. I was I was at a loss because I worked for Harvey on Project Runway All Stars and also was very good friends with his wife. So like many other situations, I was confused. It was like really complicated for me. So I didn't…I didn't comment right away because I was trying to be mindful and didn't want to be hurtful. And my friend Charlotte Clymer, who is an amazing woman, sent me in the midst of everything this DM that's, that had the screen grab of what was floating around on Facebook, which basically is the same screen grab I put in my original Tweet, which said, you know, something to the effect of you don't have to say who, but if you've been sexually assaulted, harassed, or abused just write “me too.” And so I was like, you know what I'm just gonna put this out there and see what happens. No idea who Tarana Burke is at this time. No idea about her “me too” movement. Anything. So I press send, and I go to sleep, and the next morning there were 30,000 replies, and it was trending number one, and it was really overwhelming for me. About 48 hours later, I would say, I got a call from my publicist saying did you know that there was already a “me too” movement, and I said I had no idea. Please send me all the information. So my publicist wrangled information, and it like…we…you know, she looked at the, on the internet. I followed Tarana because at this time black activists were accusing me of co-opting Tarana’s movement. So I DM’ed her, and I said I would love to talk to you on the phone. Let's chat. And, and that is how I met Tarana, and I have to tell you I promised her on the phone that day, I said any opportunity I have to speak about this movement, I will include you. Whether that means Good Morning America interviews, People, whatever it is, I will include you. But beyond that…she…I was so fucking relieved to have met her and found her because I didn't know what the fuck I was doing. I still don't really know what I'm doing. Right? Like I'm a person that has a platform that cares a lot that leads hopefully from a place of service and love and when I sent the “me too” tweet it felt like I was I was I was being given everyone's secrets to keep safe, and I hadn't dealt with my own sexual assault yet, which I had…there are two in my life. And so I was being triggered at the same time so to be able to find Tarana and know that she had been in this space for so long, and that I didn't have to try to lead this movement, and that she…there is no one better was really a great relief and you know, she has been the…the one person that I can look at in this space that doesn't feel like…they're, they’re…they disapprove of how I do things. She just like when she does disapprove, she'll call me and be like, you know what that wasn't the best way to handle this and this is where we are like this is where the movement is. Because otherwise, I don't know like I don't live I don't live in the in this, in this space of activism. I live as a, as an actress that's been very fortunate to have a platform. 

Ziwe: I really appreciate that you use your platform for good now speaking of platforms recently Rose McGowan was on this show. She accused you of wearing - I don't want to promote white-on-white crime - but she accused you of wearing blackface for Fourth of July weekend. So I wanted to know, have you ever worn blackface before? 

Alyssa Milano: I've never worn black face. I did a parody of…she doesn't like me much so let me just say that…but I did do a parody of Jersey Shore on Funny or Die where I played…I came in like this, light-skinned, and then makeup transformed me into Snooki. And my take was a…how I felt that they, that show is representing Italian Americans. And so there are pictures all over of me all over the internet in tanface and…

Ziwe: Ah, tanface… 

Alyssa Milano: Tanface. And that's what people are saying, you know, that I did blackface. There are a lot of people that have done blackface though, you know, and I don't know that in hindsight that like maybe making fun of Snooki's tan wasn't the greatest move especially with the internet, but I did feel like at that time, I was, I was making a political statement about like how Italian Americans are depicted, you know?

Ziwe: Totally. Would you consider Italians the Negroes of the white community?

Alyssa Milano: Would I consider Italians…? I don't know how to answer that except I'm going to say that when I was in South Africa, people, South African black people kept telling me that I was from slave descent, and I said, I don't understand like how do you know that? And they said because your last name is Milano so you were actually bought into a city. And instead of giving you or allowing you to keep your last name, they gave you the last name of the city you were bought into. So, I don't know. I haven't done any of those genetic things so I'm not I'm not sure like what the truth is to that. But.. 

Ziwe: You said you were…I've listened to your podcast, Sorry, Not Sorry. You said that you were reading New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander so I was curious, who are your favorite black authors?

Alyssa Milano: I love Alice Walker. Color Purple is one of my favorite books. One of my favorite poem, uh poets is Langston Hughes. I think, I think, you know, there are so many amazing black singers and songwriters that are some of the best writers of our generation. 

Ziwe: I like that you’re musical actually. So you said that Jazzy J… What was…? Jimmy Jazz? Jamie? 

Alyssa Milano: Jamey Jazz.

Ziwe: Jimmy Jazz helps you make music. And so what, what, do you like rap music? What's your favorite rap song right now on the radio? 

Alyssa Milano: Ummm, I don't really have time to listen to music. I like, I mean I can tell you I like Drake a lot.

Ziwe: Oh yeah, what's your favorite Drake song?

Alyssa Milano: I like Beyoncé a lot.

Ziwe: What's your favorite Beyoncé song?

Alyssa Milano: (Singing) “Who runs the world? Girls. Who runs…” My daughter and I dance around and have dance parties.

Alyssa Milano blows her nose in a tissue.

Alyssa Milano: Sorry. My nose is running I'm having weird allergies in this room.

Ziwe: Alyssa, you're great. And I love you impersonating black woman. I think it's hilarious. Now, could you name five black women off the top of your head?

Alyssa Milano: Yes. 

Ziwe: Please. 

Alyssa Milano: You ready?

Ziwe: Yeah. 

Alyssa Milano: Alfre Woodard. 

Ziwe: Okay. 

Alyssa Milano: I don't know why that name popped into my head, but it did. Kamala Harris. Um, uh, well, we just talked about Tarana Burke. Ummm, uhh, duh duh duh duh, I'm like on the spot. Pat Spearman who is one of my, another one of my mentors. Do you know who that is? 

Ziwe: No.

Alyssa Milano: She's this awesome senator from Nevada, and she's a veteran, and she was, she's was, she, she is the first black lesbian ever to be elected into office in Nevada. So she's amazing. Also one of my mentors. 

Ziwe: You have a lot of black mentors.

Alyssa Milano: I do because they're honest.

Ziwe: Black women are honest. I would say that. What do you like qualitatively about black, the black community?

Alyssa Milano: I don't know what that means. 

Ziwe: What qualities do you like about the black community?

Alyssa Milano: So I think that the thing that I appreciate the most, there's two things actually, one is the responsibility to family and community, but also the way in which death is sort of handled in a very personal…also family way. How, you know, like in South Africa someone, someone dies, someone passes away and their, their pastor is there or their priest is there and walking families through every single step of losing somebody and so I think that that I think, you know, all of those things we can certainly learn from and ---

Ziwe: Totally. 

Alyssa Milano: -- and experience. 

Ziwe: Well, I really, I’m obsessed with your passion about South Africa. It seems like that that place really had a long-standing impact on your life. Now if we could just switch topics a little, recently, well not so recently, but you once tweeted quote “I'm trans. I'm a person of color. I'm an immigrant. I'm a lesbian. I'm a gay man. I'm disabled.” Alyssa, why? Why did you tweet that?

Alyssa Milano: Yeah. I got, I got cancelled for that. Wasn't the first time or the last. Because I was trying to shut a troll up who was accusing me of being a horrible person and not believing in their same sort of Trumpism philosophy. So my reasoning for tweeting that was was almost like the philosophy of, you know, people that, you know, the Sufi poets or poets throughout the years or Gandhi saying that we're all connected. I think you have to be able to at least feel and empathize with people that you don't have their lived experience in order to be able to want to fight for equality. 

Ziwe: Alyssa, would you consider yourself, this is, and this is something that you, people have referred to in the public sphere, but would you consider yourself a sort of poster child for white feminism?

Alyssa Milano: I mean, that's how I've been labeled for sure. I, again, I don't, I don't come at my activism from any place other than trying to be a force of good and love and to lead in service. You know, and I think that what winds up happening is, especially right now with the election coming up, I think even people who had maybe a different presidential pick than, than I did, every little thing is going to be under the microscope and used as a weapon really, to discredit my opinion, and really what, all I'm trying to do. I'm not trying, I'm not saying that, I'm just trying to educate and raise awareness so that people can then make their own choices and decisions. I mean I come…do you know how I became an activist? 

Ziwe: No. 

Alyssa Milano: Okay, so I'm probably quite a bit older than you. How old are you?

Ziwe: I'm 19. Goo goo gaga. 

Alyssa Milano: What does that mean? 19 goo goo gaga?

Ziwe: That's how old I identify as. 

Alyssa Milano: [Laughs] Oh that's how old you identify as. I too identify as 19. But so, so I was on a TV show called Who's The Boss when I was super, super little. I was 11 to 19 so it was a big chunk of my childhood, and I never really felt like I deserved to be successful at that young age. It didn't make sense to me. I didn't have the kind of parents that we're excited about the fact that I was on television. It felt to me like, like I was sort of fucking with their life. So because they had lives right? They weren't living vicariously through me, which was good, but it never made sense to me. Anyway, when I was 15 years old, and it was hard because like everything that I was going through physically, like it's hard enough to go through puberty, let alone in front of millions of people, right?

Ziwe: Yeah. 

Alyssa Milano: So like I would, I started developing and like the two weeks later there was a script called “Sam's First Bra” when I was 11 years old, and I was like mortified. I was totally mortified. And so I didn't, I wasn't comfortable with it. 

Ziwe: And when does the activism part start? 

Alyssa Milano: I'm telling you. So because if there is a, there is a full circle, so I get this call one day from Elton John which just gives you a little idea of how absurd my life was, and he said I've got a friend. His is name is Ryan White, and you are his idol, would you meet with him? And you know who Ryan White is or was? Okay, Ryan White was HIV positive from a blood transfusion in the 80s. [To her daughter off screen] Hi baby. You can come in. 

Ziwe: Oh my gosh. Hi!

Little Off Screen Voice: Why did you steal my stuff?

Alyssa Milano: What did I steal? I'm doing an interview, baby.

Little Off Screen Voice: Why did you [indiscernible word]? 

Alyssa Milano: So I could put the lights up. [To Ziwe] Hold on a second. 

Ziwe: This is so cool.

Alyssa Milano: [To daughter] Baby, I'm doing an interview, and I'm gonna give them all back. 

Little Off Screen Voice: Nooo!

Alyssa Milano: You could have all of your, all of your notebooks. 

Little Off Screen Voice: I want them back now. 

Alyssa Milano: [To Ziwe] Can you hear her? She's upset because I propped up things, on my, with her notebooks.

Ziwe: Oh, you're reading notes! Show us your notes!

Alyssa Milano: No, no, her notebook! I propped up my lights with her notebooks. Here are.

Alyssa Milano shows the camera a stack of notebooks. 

Ziwe: This has been such a wild interview. What an experience. 

Alyssa Milano: Has it? Okay. So listen. [To daughter] Bella, do you want to come sit next to me? [To Ziwe] So, so he was HIV-positive. He was 15 years old. He got it from a blood transfusion whose just like this really strong kid. In the 80s there was a lot of stigma around being HIV-positive.

Little Off Screen Voice: [Indiscernible request]  

Alyssa Milano: [to daughter] Honey, I'm live doing an interview. [To Ziwe] Hold please. 

Little Off Screen Voice: This is mine.

Alyssa Milano: Okay, you can have that.

Alyssa Milano walks off screen. 

Alyssa Milano (Off Screen): Hold on. 

Ziwe laughs. 

Alyssa Milano (Off Screen): I’ll be right there.

Ziwe: This is a so awesome. I love this. No, this is so funny to me.

Alyssa Milano (Off Screen): Hey, Dave!

Ziwe laughs.

Alyssa Milano (Off Screen): Dave!!

Ziwe laughs. 

Alyssa Milano (Off Screen): Can you get Bella? I’m live doing an interview.

Alyssa Milano returns to camera.

Alyssa Milano: Holy shit. She definitely has my spunk. I mean… let’s put it that way.

Ziwe: What a queen. No that was perfect. Again, perfect comedic timing. I think it’s natural, truly.

Alyssa Milano: So wait, I'm gonna go shut the… [To husband off screen] Thank you, Dave. [To Ziwe] My husband who’s downstairs. And so, okay. So yeah.

Ziwe: The activism!

Alyssa Milano: So he was kicked out of school. Ryan White was kicked out of school because he was HIV-positive because during the 80s there was so much stigma and, of course, the government fed into that and gave us all sorts of crazy explanations as to not only why HIV/AIDS was a thing, but also how you contact or how you contracted it. So, so he fought it, so they kicked him out of school because they were afraid that he was going to give HIV/AIDS to other children, and so he fought for his rights to go back to school. He spoke in front of Congress, and I was his idol so I met with this beautiful 15 year old boy who is HIV-positive, and he and I became really good friends and through our friendship, he was getting sicker, and he said to me, he said to me will you go on television and kiss me to prove that you cannot get HIV/AIDS from casual contact? And so at 15 years old, at the height of my, you know, celebrityism because I was never as famous as I was then, I went on the Phil Donahue Show. That's how long ago this was. 

Ziwe: Wow. 

Alyssa Milano: And I kissed him, and that moment changed my life because I fucking realize like oh this is, this is why, right? Like this is why I've been given this gift. This is what gives it purpose and meaning and…and so it was that, it was, it was that moment when I was 15, and then, you know, a lot of things like that and then in 2000, not only did I live in South Africa, but I also got very caught up politically in what was happening and the fact that Al Gore had the election stolen from him. So that's when I sort of became an active participant in, you know, the civic responsibility of…and I used to drive people to the polls. I actually still do it when I can. 

Ziwe: Cool. I think that that is, that story is remarkable. I actually remember reading about that story, but I never connected that you were the young girl who did that so that's really interesting to me. Now as far as your activism is concerned, how do you commit towards reparations and will you be giving my viewers reparations in the comments?

Alyssa Milano: How do I give them reparations in the comments?

Ziwe: I don't know. If they drop their Venmo, you could, maybe, send them some cash.

Alyssa Milano: Sure. I'll do it. 

Ziwe: We’ll hold you to that. Now last question for you….

Alyssa Milano: Wait, that's it?

Ziwe: Well, no, we can keep going, we can keep going. I was gonna watch Real Housewives, but you're much more interesting than Ramona. Wait, you once called for a nationwide sex strike in protest of the Heartbeat Bill, pro-life legislation in Georgia and Alabama. How's your sex strike going? You have two children, famously.

Alyssa Milano: I've crossed the picket line quite a few times since then. My husband was, was very perplexed by that whole thing, but I will tell you this. In a time when we were starting to get all of these abortion bans that were popping up all over the country, it was very hard to get mainstream media to cover it. They sure did cover the sex strike. So I think ultimately even though everyone thought I was a crazy person, which I sort of am. I think ultimately, it got people talking about it, you know, and I think, see, the thing that people, that I really want people to understand about my activism is like I don't have insider information to how organizations are dealing with certain issues, right? So that kind of means I'm a one man show. I kind of, I don't answer to anybody,  and I sort of see what the problem is, and I go for it. Sometimes that gets me in trouble because sometimes I'm not on the same like talking points that, that these orgs are. For instance, I went on CNN, and I was super honest about like, you know, I've had abortions. And you know, it was very hard for me, and I felt like nobody actually wants to have an abortion. It is a very difficult decision that every woman, I felt, wrestles with. Well, I was canceled again for that because that that is not how the movement is framing abortion. The way the movement is framing abortion is that it is a very, it is healthcare. It's a, it's a common thing, and we need to be open to the idea that it, you know, that women control their destinies. Which I totally get but like if I'm not included in giving me those talking points like I'm just gonna go speak from my heart, right? 

Ziwe: But Alyssa, you can just find a book, and then you just get the talking points from the book. 

Alyssa Milano: Is that how people do it?

Ziwe: Yeah!

Alyssa Milano: Wait, so like what book would be the talking point of abortion is like something that we shouldn't feel is emotionally hard for women? And why do I, why do I have to, why do I have to change my own lived experience to be on talking point? Like maybe more, maybe women would relate to me and be like, you know, what like I get that, she made a tough decision. It was hard for her. You know what I mean? Like isn't there room for all of it? Maybe? I don't know. 

Ziwe: Yeah. I think I like, your, well everybody is welcome to speak without having done research or reading. That's, I support that. Hey, God bless. Now earlier you ---

Alyssa Milano: -- Wait a minute! Wait a minute! No research or reading. I had the experience of abortion, why do I have to research and read? 

Ziwe: Because you want to add theory to your lived experiences and that is the power of activism. 

Alyssa Milano: But people aren't having me on for theory. They're having me on to talk about my own experience. 

Ziwe: Right, like a hundred percent. 

Alyssa Milano: Right?

Ziwe: Your experiences are so valuable, and then if you contextualize your experiences in like the greater American dialogue, then, oh my God, suddenly It's like, wow, this is a really powerful activist. 

Alyssa Milano: Right. But I'm not doing it to be a powerful activist, right? Like…

Ziwe: Fair. 

Alyssa Milano: Like I do it, I do it because, you know, if I don't do it, I can't sleep with myself. Like I can’t…

Ziwe: I hear you.

Alyssa Milano: I can't find purpose in, you know, owning two houses and all of the goodness that God has given me without feeling that I'm giving something back or being able to… look, and the other thing is, I gotta tell you I get fucking annoyed when celebrities don't take a stand, like I don't, just take a stand! You know? Like where are all the white men right now or during the “Me too” movement that…

Ziwe: Tea. 

Alyssa Milano: That came forward, you know, the male celebrities like George Clooney who's always been super political, like now all of a sudden we have Trump in office, and that guy is not political anymore? Do you know what I mean? 

Ziwe: Wow, you’re naming names!

Alyssa Milano: Where is everybody!

Ziwe: Wow Alyssa, you are calling people out, and you know what…

Alyssa Milano: So what do you mean? So here's my point, my point is you either have the celebrities that don't take a stand or you have a celebrity that can speak from their own experience. 

Ziwe: Yeah. 

Alyssa Milano: And so like I try very hard to educate myself on issues to the best that I possibly can, but I, you know, I, this, this is me, this is, this is who I am for better or for worse. And like I said, people, people have been trying to cancel me since the 80s so.

Ziwe: Okay, so we have two more questions for you. One question for, one question for you is people have been canceling you say since the 80s, what do you think about cancel culture? It is, so when, like, is it okay to cancel someone if they've committed a hate crime? Where does it end, where does it begin? 

Alyssa Milano: If they've committed a hate crime, of course. 

Ziwe: Sure. Okay. Yeah, that's a good place to take a stand.

Alyssa Milano: So…but the thing about cancel culture that I think is so interesting is like we're not really canceling these people, right? Like, like if, if they had succeeded when they had tried to cancel me and, you know, decades ago, I wouldn't still be here I think. I think it's kind of become like a its own, it sort of has its own identity, what cancel culture is, right? Like it kind of breathes its own life of, its something specific, like you fucked up, and I'm going to call you out on it, which isn't really canceling someone, right? It's, it's giving people the opportunity to be able to see where you may have fucked up.

Ziwe: I feel that, and last question for you Alyssa, why did you agree to come on to this show?

Alyssa Milano: Because I think part of, part of being an, a good Ally is being uncomfortable, and I think these conversations, as uncomfortable as they might be, are important, and it's important that, that being in the public eye allows me to make mistakes that maybe other people can learn from and see in a way that is, to make a mistake and to grow from, from evolution and grace, and, and I just think you're cool.

Ziwe: Oh, thank you, Alyssa. I think, I thank you so much for this interview. You have been so open and vulnerable and I just…

Alyssa Milano: Of course. 

Ziwe: I've learned so much about you and your activism. So thank you. 

Alyssa Milano: Thank you.

Ziwe: What a pleasure. I'd love to have you again. So I will reach out next time. 

Alyssa Milano: Please, please, please any anytime. I would love, I would love to come on again and, and thank you for the opportunity, and maybe you could come on my podcast, and we could trade.

Ziwe: I would love to come on. Sorry, Not Sorry. 

Alyssa Milano: Thank you. 

Ziwe: So consider it a date. Thank you, Alyssa. Bye! 

Alyssa Milano: Thank you, darling. Bye everybody! Thank you, everybody!

Ziwe: Alyssa Milano. The comedic actress, icon. What a fantastic show. Next week, we have the fantastic Kimberly Drew, as well as George Civeris.  It's going to be a great show. 8 p.m. Eastern, Thursday. See you guys on the other side. Bye.